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In May, vertically integrated multistate operator Jushi Holdings Inc. announced it had appointed Marina Hahn, a founder of SVEDKA Vodka, to its board of directors. With decades of experience at beverage behemoths such as Pepsi and Anheuser-Busch, Hahn’s expertise is in creating and identifying strong, fast-growing brands that resonate with consumers. Four years after founding SVEDKA Vodka, the startup became one of the top-selling vodkas in the U.S., and Constellation Brands picked it up for $384 million in 2007. 

“I’ve wanted to get involved in cannabis because I love emerging businesses, and I’ve tried to be a part of emerging businesses my whole career,” Hahn says. “The other reason why I joined cannabis is that I predict the cannabis beverage segment could be a huge movement in the world of beverage.”

Here, Hahn shares lessons she’s learned and how cannabis companies can improve branding. 

Michelle Simakis: What led you to joining the Jushi Holdings Inc. board, and what were your impressions of the cannabis industry?

Marina Hahn: I was recruited by five companies in the space, and I did a ton of due diligence, and I wanted to join Jushi because I really love the team. Of course, assets are important, but if the team isn’t really strategic or is going to drive a business in a smart way, in sort of a cowboy-esque arena, then I would have no interest. It’s kind of like the startup days, where 99% of startups don’t work, and in the world of cannabis, many of those don’t work. Without a great team, businesses fail.

I do think the time is right now for more sophisticated talent to come into the cannabis industry. I’m hopeful that it will continue to recruit smart people who have had backgrounds like me, where I’ve had both the experience of large companies and a lot of startups that actually did do OK. But I think that combination is helpful in the cannabis space because it is about consolidation, but it’s also about really entrepreneurial people who can figure out how to drive shareholder value, but also growth in a very now regulated, but also starting to be commoditized, space.

MS: Why do you have confidence that Jushi will be one of the cannabis companies that is long-lasting and makes it?

MH: Jushi has started to create a brand portfolio that’s interesting, but they are committed to brand and that’s my sweet spot. As cannabis grows up, it’s going to be a brand fight. In these highly commoditized spaces, if you don’t know what you’re doing terms of building smart brands that target in a really successful way, you’re not going to win.

MS: People draw many parallels between alcohol and beverages and the cannabis industry. What are the important lessons for cannabis?

MH: That’s the other reason why I joined cannabis, is that I predict the cannabis beverage segment could be a huge movement in the world of beverage. And eventually it will end up being owned by the big guys, but there’s always room for smaller players with experience here, but only if you have differentiated offerings. The same has been true in the world of beverage where my advice would be get in early to compete in emerging beverage segments and try to be a first mover in beverage innovation. I have learned many lessons working at Pepsi and ultimately at Anheuser-Busch and starting my own business, SVEDKA Vodka, they know their audiences really well, and that’s critical. We also take packaging very seriously, that’s critical. In the world of cannabis, there are going to be many cannabis beverages, but the key is how you differentiate a beverage so that it is truly unique and is something that the consumer didn’t know they needed but, after consuming, really desire it.

When I was the co-founder of new businesses, ZX, which is the growth arm of Anheuser-Busch, we bought companies that we felt were emerging and offered the consumer something really special. Cutwater [Spirits] canned cocktails is now a no-brainer, as canned cocktails are everywhere, but when Cutwater was an emerging business, Anheuser-Busch was smart to buy them. So that’s an example again of us getting in early to emerging segments and trying to be a first mover in innovation. I think that’s important for cannabis.

MS: Cannabis beverages are still a small percentage of overall sales. According to BDSA, the edibles market represents 15% of all cannabis sales in the U.S., and beverages make up just a small portion of edibles sales at 5%. What needs to happen to really change that? 

MH: Think prohibition. It was the same thing, right? Spirits are taken for granted now, but the stigma’s still there [for cannabis]. It’s lessening; by the time the stigma goes away, and [for] people [who] don’t want to smoke, there [will be] plenty of other options to get that enhanced value, whether it’s medicinal or whether it’s just for pleasure. It’s inevitable that beverages will be a big, big part of cannabis. I mentioned packaging, but it’s also what’s inside the product. The consumer usually gravitates to brands that are meaningful to them and that they can emotionally connect to. So how do you do that through packaging, product, and messaging. There are so many elements from the world of spirits that will probably migrate over to cannabis; it’s not an if, it’s a when. Why it hasn’t happened is probably because it’s an emerging space and the kind of people who understand that business are just not in cannabis yet. I think there needs to be a more sophisticated approach to strategy and creative in the world of cannabis to create the growth in beverages..

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MS: What do you think cannabis companies need to do to bring to their branding to prepare for federal legalization? Where are they lagging, but also, what are they doing really well?

MH: I think there are only a handful of brands that are even interesting in the cannabis space right now. And I’m not going to name whether it’s Jushi or somebody else, but it gets back to what are your favorite brands in general, and why? And I think that pull or that interest from consumers just isn’t there yet in a big, big way, because the brands aren’t that compelling. I think the strategy is lacking. It’s just a handful of stuff thrown on the shelf that all looks the same.

MS: What advice would you give to operators about how they should be approaching expansion?

MH: Be very careful. I mean, you can dilute your efforts in five seconds. There’s just so much that can be done, but I think a company has to stand for something, and whether their prowess is in retail or in branding or in growing, it’s really hard to do everything really, really well. The big guys can do a lot more, but as a cannabis company comes up into the ranks, they have to be known for something. I would just picked pick your flavor and do really well. Um, and for the vertically integrated, um, you know, again, it’s back to team and if you have a sophisticated really smart team, you can make it happen. But over time, just be patient. The rush to do everything is probably not going to work because it just takes time to build smart franchises, whether it’s a retail franchise or whether it’s brands, anything consumer-facing takes time.

MS: Is there a pitfall you see a lot of brands making when they expand too quickly?

MH: How many brands really succeed? When I spent 10 years of my life at SVEDKA, I always said there are only four brands on a back bar that the consumer’s going to remember. For us to compete on the back bar, meaning, when you walk into a bar and you see brands, you have to figure out what your strategy is.

[You] can’t assume you’re going to be able to do it all with a) small budgets and b) without the right team and c) without a really sound strategy. My advice is always, don’t try to do too much and build it slowly, and build it against a very finite target audience initially. Make sure you understand your strategy upfront and then take a lot of creative risks and use your intuition and go for it. Make sure you’ve got the right people who have done this before so you’re not just blindly creating brands that won’t have stickiness down the road.

MS: How did you differentiate your marketing strategy at SVEDKA to stand out?

MH: I envisioned an outrageous fem bot spokesperson, who we called SVEDKA_Grl, who became this pop culture icon. Talk about small but efficient budgets – everything was geared towards her, and she became emblematic of the brand. We only went into three or four markets, and we were very focused when it came to marketing spend, but they were big urban markets. And then ultimately we became national with our marketing spend, but she was just visually arresting, and she broke through all the competitive clutter. Once I launched her, SVEDKA sold like crazy, and we sold to Constellation [Brands] four years later.

MS: Is there anything else I didn’t ask you that you think is important to mention?

MH: Look at really smart brands that are suddenly household names and how they started, and try to take lessons from them versus using the conservative consumer goods company approach to building businesses. It doesn’t work that way anymore. It’s all about targeting. It’s important to carefully target and develop great creative, but it’s also about using data strategically to deeply understand your customer. That’s a very different approach than hiring 10 brand managers. [Do] not play by the bad rules of large companies [and create] layered, bureaucratic org charts. There’s no need for that.

Editor’s Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity. A version of this interview will be published in the October issue of Cannabis Business Times.